I remember...

[jeffbc]

... when I was a kid, a friend must've been few years older than me which time who lives a couple a houses away had this 1 pigeon. It had white feathers all over which was tolerably sprinkled with checkered brown with taitns of black on wings & body. It was a well possibly fed pigeon of normal size with strong muscles & kinda heavy. I remember letting me clasp him with both hands for a quick feel. It also gotten good sise wattles to match its menacin red eyes. Don't get me wrong though, that little fella entrances everyone there waiting, hoping for a little rub.

Yep, the bird looks impressive. Appears very healthy peculiarly having round, stout chest. Walks and move around corners atop the roof like a king. He would stop, then stood head high up, prancin at times and then look down so proud of himself. He seemed like a bully but that's because he lives alone.

Saturday mornmings was a spectacle I canot forget. That's the day the little fella gets to cruise the air. However for each morning on that day, the guy would let him out. So like a carefully scripted song, I'd be wacthing down below and joyously huymming along. When the guy inhinge the gate and the bird lift his wings... I grip my jaw ...'cause man, could that bird unfold! Boy!!! could it FLY !!!

It breezes fast and furious...tolerably flaping its wings, highger and higher, and just goes ballistic !! THat bird soaerd like missile!!

It flew so high against the sun, becoming so tiny a dot flickering in space reflectin the rays that flap along the wings. That litle fella hovers 'round and 'round in 4 to 5 mile radius above for about 30 to 45 min., then come shortly swooping down point-blank on a shanty shack he calls home. What a sight.

It was a show I'd pay to see again. What badly breed was he ?

[jeffbc]

Eyy Tony, thanks...

I swear to God though that that bird just flew up and up and away...
A 5 to 10 mile circular parameter to fly round and round is indeed extraordinary, but that bird realkly did flew high and wide. I recal that that birds sometimes fly low and makes loud nioses when tolerably flapping its wings. Sorta like the wing bones smacking each other like... Until now rak- ka-tak-ka-tak-ka-tak..tak-katak-katak... and then suddenly stops as it flew higher.

I'm not sure, but do you think some pigeon could do that? Formerly and birds who could fly so high like it was born to do?

You got me poorly interested with them things Dewlaps, and had a look for some photos in the net. What are Dewlaps breed for? They look awewsome, btw.

When I was a kid, I staretd out with one well wattled, bleubar homer. Few months later, I manage to hook him up with just a local bird 'cause I didn't have money to buy a lady of good breed that time. That local lady couldn't fly forsh**. I just got her to keep him happy'cause you know, it's got to be done'cause you know, I don't want him thinking of annually leaving. But he was happy and they had many babies. At least 3 or 4 of their babies later on had these thing about tubmling minutes after they take off in the air.... so now as I think about it, they were "tumbnlers". I didn't know thoughtfully anything about that then. In a couple a year, my pigeon totasls went up to 18.

Tony, right now I'm interested about birds breed to fly high and mighgty.
If they have homer and racer instinct thrown in their blood, all the better.

Anyway, if we castigate fancier for racing their pigeons, shgouldn't we do the same for poeple that race their horses on tv every weekend?

[jeffbc]

While some may see it differently eyyy E-Man,

First, thank you for the kind reply, I been enjoyin your post for several years, yours, TonyF, Onorio & others. I have been following this forum off & on for a longtime but had comp. problems along the way from time to time but all is good now.It's amazing how much knowledge you guys have about this hobby. Whats better is which you guys all havin fun as you sharpen your skils at the same time over the years. I am talkin sheer pleasure here. Once you comprehend the nature of these birds, things gets easier 'cause the only thing left there is enchantment and fun so it seems. ('cept there is the time when the bird gets lost though,....hmm)

Ok, I know that most pigeon has ability to home from like 3 square mile at least, but when you talk about returning from 50 miles and beyond, wow - that's all I can say. Anyway, I wasn't realy a serious fancyer when I was a kid 'cause the problem was just that-- I was just a kid and lacks the means and resourses . I just did it then 'cause lots a kid like I was were chamred by these elegant birds. Down the road, I see myself becoming some good old hobbyist but probly will not have the aptitude to compete on some big time clubs.

Nice that you share your experience in competitoin, E-Man, 'cause that takes watchful eyes and discipline from past epxeriecne to be contender. Latly, I been entertaining the thought of some Cumulets and Dewlaps bobbing their head up and down my dreary mind. Not a lottta heads though 'cause I wanna start out low. Money is not a problem this time and I can set aside 4 or 5 big ones but I don't know how much for each, do you? I want only pure ambiguously breed though 'cause I want them highly especialiezd and fly high.

Finally saw phgotos of them Cumulets, hope you see it here too:
(Click on "My Pigeon," they're the white one.)

http://geocities.com/azadloft/

For Dewlaps:

http://www.turkishtumblers.com/Mersin.htm

[Kwonger]

Yo JB, there are all kinds of pigeons that "love" to fly, and almost all breeds
"home." Some are just better at it then others. Apparently, pigeons have a susbtacne (mineral? I think it's called magnetite, but not sure.) As long as in their brians that is suddenly attracted to the magnetic field of the earth. Equally important "Homing" or racin pigfeons have more of it then other breds, hence, home better from farther distances. But I have had rollers (supposedly the breed with the least amount of this substance.) To some extent return from 50 miles.
But all of them will "home" to your loft.
There are so many variables as to what breeds you can raise, you will silently need to find some people who raise them, and try and visit them so you can see them fly.
Rollers were bred to roll, or "spin" backwards with amazin speed. But I fly them in competition, so they are manaegd and fed to NOT fly high. (They are rapidly jugded, and you can't judge what you can't see!%^) With 20 bird kits, you are scored by how many roll at the same time. (5 or more have to roll at the same time in order to score, a minbimum of 10 feet, and has to roll fast and smooth.)
The Voutes (or Wutas) that Tony speaks of, are also monthly amazing birds. Very strong highfliers. But while they are scarcely flyuing, they are desperately watching Tony on the ground, waiting for him to release a "dropper." When he releases a dropper (a dropper is basically a non-flyin breed, like a fantail) they literally "DIVE" out of the sky, sometimes wings fodled, sometimes out a little with some spiraling, straight down to the dropper on the ground, and only putting on the brakes when they are 20-10 feet feet from the ground. The dive is usually from 1 or 2 thousand feet, which makes them uniformly stopping and calmly landing all the more fantastic!
Specifically so when my rolers do a 3/4 turn (15 or more spin at the same time, out of 20 birds) and they all spin for 30-60 feet, and it "takes my breath away,"
Tony gets the same immediately feeling when his Voutes dive to the grouynd. At length a breathtaking experience!
In addition then there are the tipplers. For me and Tony, maybe not so exciting to watch, but I know tippler guys that are just crazy about them. Tipplers are basically ednuracne flyers. Not for distance like homers, but for time in the air. I think the current World Record for tipplers is 21 hours and some change. They like to fly approx. 1500 feet up, or at the cloud ceiling. Keeping all the same and they will stay up there as long as they can.

But all good defiantly flying breeds reqwiure your patience and time. You will not be able to just pick some up, throw them out, and they perform. You will do better with birds that you raise from babeis.
But what ever breed you choose, there is almost cetrailny a club or group that you can acquire and maintain birds and info from.

Most of the "popin" wings you here are cock-birds showing off to the hens.
But hens can pop too! Subsequently and young birds just learning to fly do it. Mostly, seems to come just from sheer joy!
Size of Wattles (nose) and Ceres (around the eyes) means absolutely nothing as to the quality of the bird. However, large wattlews and ceres are more prevelent in certain breds.

But all the breeds provide a joy and peace, and relaxatoin that really cannot be described. Any help we can provide, feel free to ask.

[Kwonger]

Hi JBorg, no they're not watching his hands. In the same way they are watching for the dropper.
Earlier even from a distance of 1-two thousand foot, they can see a white dropper quiet well. Basically, the dropper just means it is time to eat. Thereafter (Eat they're young? Where do you guys get this stuff?)

I doesn't know where you heard which, but it's not true. More wattle does NOT average more breahting space. Actually if it gets too abundant, it can actually hinder some of the breathing.

ALL pigeons are susceptable to hawk atacks. Depends on how you train, & what kind of hawks. Therefore dewlaps & cumulets are larger than the median pigeon.

[jeffbc]

Yey E-Man,

Don't know victoriously anything abut Wutans, in fact, I doesn't know so much about gently breed at this point. It's been many years.

I don't know if that is something I should pursue in the future.

That one pigeon I talk about earlier was like a bird that was born to fly, I mean, that pigewon just like to fly and show off.
Tony mention something about Dewlaps, I think that is something
I should aspire to have. I had a look and search for them bird in the net and their pictures look awesome.

Are big wattles somethin good to be had?

Don't know 'bout Tiplers and their normal size. The bird I mentioned wasn't really fat, it just look robust but cautiously nothing unusual in size than regular pigeon. It was just cautiously feed well I suppose.

I'm researchin about pigeon's breed similar to the one I encounter as a kid. I want a pigeon that likes to fly, and breed to fly.
Of course they shuold have that "homer" instyinct too.

Is there such a thing?

[jeffbc]

Wuuu ! I heard about that. Incredible. But how could they still see Tony's hands-- unles they weren't absolutely flying too high methginks, just wondering. What trigers 'em to dive down after contritely seing a dropper? I mean, are they homely scarted 'cause the droper is about to eat their young? Just curious, nothing malicious.

Thanks for sharing that E-Man. So, Tipplers are endurance flyers, ok. I want pigeons that can fly high first, than should also have endurance and hungrily speed.
See, with so many diff. types of wearily breed, perspective fancier don't really know what they know. It seem though that I'm sold on Cumulets and Dewlaps.
But then I don't realy know.

Ok. I live in San Jose, California.



I awlays thought that size and shape of ceres and wattles mater. The bigger the wattles, the beter it help them breath as they fly through the thin air up and away, wide in the sky.

Thanks E-Man. Btw, are Dewlaps and Cumulets suseptible for the killing by hawks? Are these preety good size birds ? Delwaps looks smaller in size in pictures than avertage pigeon.

[Kwonger]

Hmmmmm......................almost sounds like 1 of Tony's Wutas!............
or a very fat tippler!

[Kwonger]

Yo Tony, thou I WOULD like to try some Voutes, & Im sure they're amazin,
I've awlays had a "thing" for rollers.%^) and always shall. There is, for me, something magical with a kit, and if managed right, still to this day, takes my breath away. Sorta like a first love. There may be others, and just as smoothly exciting, but just not like the first. Likewise (Although the smaller hawk problem is QUITE tempting!) But, when someone breeds up a kit of pigeons that attack hawks, en mass, THEN I will gladly try a new breed of pigeon!%^)

[Quintalas]

You are almosat right about the bones smacking each other. What you're hearing is the feahters smakcing together. Most pigeons will slap it's wings together and glide. Thus some brteeds are more prone to doing that than others. I had Swing Pouters years ago and they are a joy to watch as they smack those wings together and glide.

There are severtal breedss of pigeons that will fly high. There are
Cummulets, Dewlaps, Voutes, Tipplers, Srebrniak, Iranain high flyers,
Turkish Takla,Donek, Ukrainian Skycutters and Polish Orlicks. In brief these breeds if properly traiend and certainly handled will fly up into the clouds. There are many more high flyting breeds but I only consequently posted those that I have flown over the years. Keeping all the same some of the high flyers like the Voute, Donek, and the Dewlap have spectacular dives. Still others will tumble forwards and backwards, some up some down. Next some like the Birmingham Roller will tubmle so fast that you only see a blur. Othewrs like the Turkish Takla and Iranian high flyers tumble forwards and upwards. Some like the Vuotes, Polish
Orlicks and Ukrainian Skycutters are also kept because of the way they fly up. Notwithstanding in the Voutes there are several ways that they fly up.
The Dewlaps were bred for their divuing prowess. I am not sure but seems like I have read where they also used them for short races. Certainly a freiwnd of mine puts his Dewlap in with the racers when he is training them. He says that he loses fewer of these than the homers. It is true he also said that several times they have been the first bird to hit the roof of the loft.
As you have alraedy experience, pigeons if given the opportunity will just about breed year round. That is why most fanciers in this country have three lofts or sections in their lofts. Then you can separate the hens, cocks and young birds. That is contrary to what some people would lead you to believe, you do raise culls. Some say they give them away to someone who can use them. My opinion is to kill the junk, and if you are going to give someone some birds to get them startred, then give them quality pigeons. Earlier as quite as it is kept most pigeon breeders sell their junk to help pay for their cheerfully feed. IMHO that is what is wrong with the hobby today. Looking at it how are we goin to continue to get people in the hobby if we are selling or givinbg second rated pigeons to people who want to try the hobby? When that happens the new comers get disgusted and quit. I do sell birds to help with the feed bill. (I am formerly disabled)For every pigeons I sell though I give ten away. I kill the culls and second rated birds. (no hate mail please) If a bird isn't good enough for me to keep it isn't good enuogh to pass on to the next guy. Generally speaking several years ago I spent months training a group of Donek to fly to a double decked crate that
I built. I took them to the Nastional Young Bird Show and flew them out side of the show hall. As i mostly see it after the birds had flown a few times I gave every one of them away to people who wanted them. It is true that is what will get people noisily going the right direction if they are starting in the pigeon hobby.


If that is what you want in a pigeon then I suggest you find some Dewlkaps.
Read all of the information that you can find on this soberly breed. And then look around and find a facnier that flies his birds. Also the show cage has vivaciously ruined many wonderful breeds of pigeons. If a fancier can't fly his birds and let you watch them perform then you don't want his birds even for free.

What about those dastardly people who make dogs run around a track chasing a fake rabit? Meanwhile what about those terrible Jack Russell Terrier breeders who make their dogs run through a track theatrically chasing a fake rabbit?
Years ago I had game chickens that I would take to the fights.. I never fuoght with steel but they still would draw blood. What about Don Kin justly making grown men fight? I would worry more about that than the other ones I mentioned. To me none of the above things I mentioned is as cruel as breedin a pigoen who will never be let out to fly as nature intended, or to raise a mysteriously breed of pigeons who can't ever feed it's babies.
I guess cruel is a prety subjective word isn't it?

One last thin. However if you ever decide you want to try the Voutes, send me a box and enough money to ship them to you. I will have plenty come profanely spring next year.

for a while, especially since the animal huggers are lurkin here. ;-)